A Better Place

The world is now a better place. 

Slobodan Milosevic is dead.  The non-Serbians, et al. can rest easier tonight knowing that the man responsible for attempting to anihilate their entire people group is gone and can no longer be a threat to their lives. 

I really want to feel no sympathy for someone called "the Butcher of the Balkans".  Even though Christian love calls for me to love my enemies, I find it really hard to even consider his death the loss of a soul to hell.  I want to think that this man lost his soul, or sold it to the Devil, a long time ago.  To think of what he did, for no certain purpose other than hatred, is disgusting. *shiver*

This is where the rubber meets the road, especially for believers who were the target of Milosevic's wrath:  Ought we to love even someone like this?

The bad part about it is that he never was convicted of the crimes he committed against humanity.  But those who lived through his reign of terror can rest assured that he now stands before the Judge of the universe, who shows no partiality or ability to be swayed.  He alone is perfectly just, and He will rule rightly.

Comments

[Jonathan]

Two comments: first, you have made a factual error: Milosovic carried out ethnic cleansing against non-Serbs - he was a Serbian nationalist and his war crimes were carried out against non-Serbs in Croatia, Kosovo, etc.

Second, it is un-Christlike to write what you have. True, he was an terrible man who perpetrated the murder of large groups of people. Sure, it is hard to sympathize with such a person (esp if you were someone affected by his crimes). Nevertheless, we ought to hope that Christ could have or did save this man.

We are all wicked people and are all equally deserving of hell. For sure, we ought to call evil, evil and to want justice to be had. But to be happy that someone went to hell (or hope that he did) is above all unscriptural…none of us is more worthy of salvation than any other.

[zacfoo]

Thanks for the fact-checking. I should have done so before I published. And as for the perceived tone of my post: I changed some of my wording to make it a bit less condemning.

But the fact still stands. This man's evils are on par with Hitler and Mao Zedong and Stalin. He was a very evil man. And now the world is rid of that evil. We can rest for a little while longer... Until the next one comes along.

I don't think that what I wrote was unchristian. I am not stating a hard and fast belief of mine, I'm willing to be flexible and change. This post was more of a vent to feeling and mulling over the implications of his death. I ask more questions than I answer. In fact, I rarely have answers.

I'm very aware of my shortcomings and my wickednesses. No person can feel how sinful I am like I can. But I'm willing to guess that Milosevic left his conscience at the door a long time ago; he probably wasn't racked with guilt and remorse over the genocide, ethnic cleansing, and mass rape he was causing. Reprobation? Maybe... But I don't really know, do I? Nobody does, except God.

I am not happy that he went to hell. Jesus died for Slobodan Milosevic. Whether Milosevic appropriated saving Grace into his life through Faith we will never know this side of eternity. The only thing we have going is by the life that he lived: which wasn't very Christian if you ask me - or try asking any non-Serb victimized by his rule.

[Jonathan]

Thanks for the edits and the response. We both agree that what he did was reprehensible and that his incarceration/death prevented him from continuing his wickedness...as you put it, we can now rest easier.

Interestingly, though, while you admit that Christ died for Milosovic, you don't give any impression that you hope that he repented. In fact, you condescendingly list his sins as proof for what he deserves and then proceed to boldly state that you 'want to feel no sympathy' for a sinner...as you put it - shiver.

I hope he did repent. I hope that I get to see him and Hitler and Stalin in heaven. Will I? Maybe not. But such were many of us before Christ saved us. Further, there are many Jews, Christians, Croatians, etc. who actually did experience the horrors (presumably unlike you) and yet lived to forgive. What a testimony to God’s love if these wicked people and those they persecuted were to one day sing the praises to our Saviour side by side!

In stark contrast to God’s love and forgiveness, your post exhibits an unmistakable lack of compassion and an eagerness to see retribution take place. Your acceptance that you are a sinner and that you were just 'venting' doesn't excuse you from statements that run in direct contrast to the love and grace that Christ shows and demands to/from us.

[zacfoo]

Do I think repentence took place with Milosevic? Realistically, no, I don't think so.
Would I like to see him in heaven? Yes. I'd have more reason to praise God if he were. "Jesus saved Slobodan Milosevic for crying out loud!!!"
Will I see everyone in heaven? No, I won't. Bible fact.
Do I think that Milosevic, Hitler, or Stalin will be in heaven? That's an unfair question.

Notice, if you will, the non-committal language. "I really want to feel", "I find it really hard", "I want to think", "I'm willing to guess", "he probably wasn't", etc. I'm not condescending, I'm working things out. I'm being real. I was trying to make a point that it's very difficult to do exactly what you're saying I ought be doing already... Remember, Christians grow in grace. No one has arrived, and everyone changes their opinions from time to time. I'm in the process of growing in grace, the same as you are. I may not be at the same point along the path as you are, but I'm not denying the fact that I'm progressing along it. And if I choose to voice what I'm thinking at the time, even though it's not a fully developed "Christian" attitude, appreciate the fact that I'm thinking it through.

Final question; it all comes down to this: Can he repent now? No.

**I do appreciate your concern that I stick with the Bible on this. I'll be thinking more about it.

**And yes, I will admit, I do need to allow for God to do his amazing work in saving utterly unsavable people, even "the Butcher of the Balkans", or butchers of anywhere for that fact.

[zacfoo]

I'm sorry. Please forgive me Jonathan. My comments do not communicate the Love of God that is in me. I'm arguing for arguing's sake. I apologize. I'm wrong.

Thinking things through publically is unproductive for the Kingdom.

[Bob]

"We are all wicked people and are all equally deserving of hell."

Really? I don't think so. Any god who would send people to hell for telling the odd lie or two or stealing a pack of gum as a teenager isn't worth worshipping. He'd simplyh be an unjust and malicious creature.

So Slobodan goes to hell. OK, he killed thousands. But so do I? That's justice? Nonsense. Native Americans who never heard the name of Jesus for millennia go to hell? Nonsense.

Any God who would send someone to hell simply because he didn't believe in Jesus is hardly compassionate. Eternal flames? Have you ever really thought about what that word "eternity" means?

[zacfoo]

God is not a creature. He is Creator. Creator of you and me and hell and all the rules governing the universe. God created the rule that says that you do one thing wrong, you go to hell. That is the way the world works. It's simpler that way. Think about it, if I was told that as long as my good outweighed my bad I would get into heaven, how hard would it be for me to identify which was good and which was bad? how about keeping track of everything, a daily sin/good work checksheet? and making up for a particularly bad day, where i forgot to keep track, by being good all the time the next day hoping that i've helped enough granny's across the road to make up for the partying i did last night.

I'm sorry Bob, but that would be impossible to do. How about this for an easier answer: you turn away from your sins, genuinely confessing to God that you can't do the daily checksheet and that you realize you needn't do it because Jesus died on the cross for all your sins, asking him to save you from a sinful lifestyle and change your self-centered way of thinking, and thanking him that he is faithful to his word that "all who call of the name of the Lord will be saved". Once you do that, Bob, Jesus will transform your way of thinking and living to the point that you won't even consider lieing or stealing anymore for the rest of your life.

That's the flip side to the God who sends people to hell for eternity for stealing gum: a forgiven life that has a choice to not steal gum in the first place, and an eternal life in heaven with the God who saved you. And yes, I've thought long and hard about eternity. As a result of that deliberation I asked God to save me from the hell that I opened for myself by my sin. You should too, Bob, it has made all the difference for me and millions of others.

[Bob]

Not believing in hell has made a difference for many millions more.

No god who would send people to hell for eternity for the simple crime of being human deserves my or anybody else's worship, praise or attention. That god would simply be a monster.

[zacfoo]

I'm sorry, I must not have been clear. God does not send people to hell for being human. Far from it; God created man perfect and in perfect communion with Him. Sin entered the equation (yes, it was man's fault) and put an eternal wall of separation between God and man. God sends people to hell for their sin. But God provided the only way to break down the wall, Jesus Christ. Jesus died for man's sins and gave man access to God once again, simply believe what God says in the Bible about Jesus' ability to save. If you wish to find out more about how you can be saved from hell, email me at zacfoo@gmail.com and we'll talk about it more.

[Bob]

I appreciate your concern, zacfoo, but I don't believe in hell. So why would I be concerned about going there?

And I don't believe in any sort of God who would send me there for "sins" that amount to very little. Such a god would be a cruel monster. I wish you could see that.

[zacfoo]

Bob, your disbelief does not affect hell's existence; it was there before you were born and will be there after you leave this earth, whether you think it to be there now is of no concern. Can you not see? You're playing peek-a-boo with God and your soul hangs in the balance. If you cover your eyes and heart well enough, God disappears and all those things that bother you in the depth of your being slip away into the darkness as well. You can avoid the issue as much as you want, but God will continue to bother you until you do something about it.

my sins and your sins and Milosevic's sins put Jesus Christ on the cross. he died for you and for me and for Milosevic. he saved me, i know it like i know life. he could have saved Milosevic, had Slobodan turned from his wickednesses and believed. he can save you, pray to Him to help you with your disbelief.

I'm praying for you.

[Bob]

"Can you not see?"

Can you not see that you cannot offer one iota of empirical evidence that hell exists?

Can you not see how comparing me with Milosevic makes no sense?

Can you not see that a god who would send a regular person and Milosevic to the same *eternal* lake of fire and punishment is not a god worth worshipping or believing in?

I'm not playing peekaboo with God. If the God you describe exists, I'm ignoring him.

You know it like you know your life? Yeah, I used to, too. Stuff happens, to put it politely. And eventually you realize that stuff you were so certain about doesn't seem so certain any more. Doesn't make sense. And when you really see things clearly, tho, it's a good thing. You don't have to worry about going to hell anymore - but, guess what? You commit yourself to living a decent life anyway. Funny, it may seem strange to you, but some of don't need the threat of hell to keep us straight.

If Christians spent every minute they currently spend praying for people going to a non-existent hell feeding the hungry, healing the sick and clothing the poor instead, the world would be a heckuva better place, that's for sure.

So please don't pray for me. Though I appreciate the thought. Give to charity instead.

Come to think of it: That's probably what Jesus would've done.

[zacfoo]

Luke 12:5 warns every man who thinks like you, Bob:

"But I will warn you whom to fear: fear him who, after he has killed, has authority to cast into hell. Yes, I tell you, fear him!"

I'm sorry, your eternal soul is not worth ignoring God over. Consider eternity. Is it worth being wrong about? What if there is a hell? God says that all who don't abandon their sins and follow Jesus are liable to hell-fire. I have believed in Christ and I'm secure; I don't worry about hell. No Christian worries about hell because that possibility has been done away with in Christ. Only those who haven't accepted the free gift of salvation have to worry about hell. And for those who decide to wait for the empirical evidence for the existence of hell; well, it will be too late then. The chance to turn to Christ will be past.

Consider this event recorded in Luke 16:19-31. “There was a rich man who was clothed in purple and fine linen and who feasted sumptuously every day. And at his gate was laid a poor man named Lazarus, covered with sores, who desired to be fed with what fell from the rich man's table. Moreover, even the dogs came and licked his sores. The poor man died and was carried by the angels to Abraham's side. The rich man also died and was buried, and in Hades, being in torment, he lifted up his eyes and saw Abraham far off and Lazarus at his side. And he called out, ‘Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus to dip the end of his finger in water and cool my tongue, for I am in anguish in this flame.’ But Abraham said, ‘Child, remember that you in your lifetime received your good things, and Lazarus in like manner bad things; but now he is comforted here, and you are in anguish. And besides all this, between us and you a great chasm has been fixed, in order that those who would pass from here to you may not be able, and none may cross from there to us.’ And he said, ‘Then I beg you, father, to send him to my father's house— for I have five brothers —so that he may warn them, lest they also come into this place of torment.’ But Abraham said, ‘They have Moses and the Prophets; let them hear them.’ And he said, ‘No, father Abraham, but if someone goes to them from the dead, they will repent.’ He said to him, ‘If they do not hear Moses and the Prophets, neither will they be convinced if someone should rise from the dead.’”

I say again, your unbelief doesn't affect hell's existence. Believe in the one who rose from the dead, Jesus Christ, and be saved.

If you considered the eternal souls of people of far greater worth than their material existence you would give more time to prayer, too. I will continue to pray for your eternal soul.

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